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Sep 17 2009 2:59PMby GrtSm2012
GreenWeenie
#1
Pirates Talk
Thoughts?
Bay, McClutch, McClouth - OF's Rameriz, Wilson, Sanchez, Jones and Doumit. Duke, Malholm, Gorzo, Olendorhf 1-4 P's Pen has Burnett, Grabow. how hard would it have been to keep this team, how much better would they be? Contending for a wild card?
Member Comments
View Comments: | 1-18 | Post a comment
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GrtSm2012
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09-17-09 2:59 PM
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In the Grabow-Gorzo deal, we got an athletic infielder who could be, at worst, a super-utility guy like Jose Bautista. Along with him, we got spot-starters who will contribute to our bullpen. Ascanio is a fireballer, and could be our future closer (really soon if Capps doesn't remember how to pitch). Speaking of Capps, does anyone else see the connection between Matt Capps and Kenny Powers of Eastbound and Down? Same number, lost their fastball, both closers. Capps yells a little too, so maybe he's saying "You're f***in out!" IDK, I can't read lips, but it sounds like something a "big bull-rider" would say
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DoumitDinger
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09-17-09 2:08 PM
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I really think the Grabow and Gorzo trade is going to turn out to be great.
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seriesin09
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09-17-09 1:16 PM
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The value received in the Bay trade definitely is still up in the air, but there's no doubt he had to be traded... it's reported that Boston may not choose to pay his price, so Pittsburgh definitely would not have been able to keep him. The Ramirez trade wasn't really a trade, that was McClatchy being McClatchy and thank goodness he's gone. The Grabow trade, though, is way too early to classify as bad. We've been hearing about bone chips in his elbow for I think three years and he's refused surgery. You've got to think that'll catch up eventually. If he pitches as much next year as Marte did this year, that trade could turn out good.
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BUC4LIFE
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09-17-09 9:38 AM
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When you trade an established player for a " potential prospect" you are taking a high risk" some gambles will pay off, some not.If you like high risk gambling play the lottery or hit the casino.Trades are part of baseball, but there are strategic trades then there are throw your hands up in the air and throw in the towel trades.
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arizonabruce
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09-17-09 12:07 AM
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I am like most and was not a fan of the Ramirez or Grabow trade. The Bay trade was suicidal on all fronts. However, the rest of the trades were really not that bad and will all help the Pirates over the long run. Those remaining traded players would not make the team competitive today. The compensated future prospects will make the Pirates competitive in the future.
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lancem
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09-16-09 9:36 PM
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bigvalley you are right there is something more tothe losing than just performance on the field.
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lancem
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09-16-09 9:32 PM
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bigvalley why do you think they would lose those three players,Jones would play first and the outfield would be Bay,McClouth and McCutchen.Ohlendorf was picked up in the Nady trade who isn't listed.doumit you must have forgotten the 2nd half of last year,the offense was the worst.as for the pitching,the pirates staff is rated 14 out of 16 teams,not very good.
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bigvalley
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09-16-09 8:44 PM
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If you keep the suggested players you lose McCutchen, Jones and Ohlendorf. So you can't count them. None of the players mentioned provide leadership, either in Pgh. or where they ended. Jim Tracy, who failed here, goes elsewhere and becomes MOY candidate. Did he just figure out how to manage. The Pirates need to find players who lead and perform. Its the difference between a poor team and a .500 team. To win championships you need more than one. Look at the Cubs, good players, but apparently no leaders
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DoumitDinger
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09-16-09 8:33 PM
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Duke and Ohlendorf both have won ten games...Maholm with 8. I know that doesn't sound good, but last year Duke had 5 and Ohlendorf, when he was here, went winless and looked bad doing it. Maholm was our the ace with nine. And that was on a team with substantially better offense...the pitching is vastly improved.
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lancem
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09-16-09 7:13 PM
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the pitching has been just as bad this year as it was last year.that is where ownership commitment comes into play.
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DoumitDinger
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09-16-09 2:52 PM
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Okay, but none of their hitting mattered because the pitching was horrendous. So, with young guys coming up through the system, such as McCutchen, it's a good move to trade some of the older outfielders that are perhaps at their peak for potential pitching help. And that's what they did.
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lancem
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09-16-09 2:17 PM
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your not very clear DoumitDinger,last year bay,mcclouth,rameriz,wilson,sanchez and doumit had good years. with the pirates,the reasons for trading players, even the experts sometimes can not figure out.its the commitment from the ownership that is the problem.that is the constant that taking place.
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DoumitDinger
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09-16-09 11:19 AM
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This speculation is ridiculous because none of these guys have ever clicked at the same time in their careers. That's why players get traded. They all go through ups and downs - but rarely do the ups ever cross paths. So, when a player is in at the top of his game and the rest of the team isn't, they get traded before they go back down to the level of the others. Look at last year - best outfield in baseball. But all of the pitchers were awful...
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GreenWeenie
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09-16-09 7:57 AM
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I think it played a role, however what if the team still had A. Ramieriz at third? Bay in left? I think there would be enough power, plus Jones to make this a competitive lineup. Would it have taken that much of a commitment form ownership to keep that group togeather? They also would be solid defensiviely up the middle.
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BUC4LIFE
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09-15-09 12:08 PM
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We did finish april with a winning record. Did the Mcclouth trade start the downward trend again or was it just a coincidence??
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lancem
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09-13-09 1:43 PM
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according to the Post Gazette the pirates do not expect Hill to be back.That is the question everyone inside and outside of baseball is asking,will the pirates ever pay their players, so keeping that team together would probaly would never have taken place.
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GreenWeenie
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09-13-09 10:39 AM
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How difficult would it have been to keep this lineup togeather, or more accurately how much more expensive? IF the Pirates were smart they would do wahtever it takes to keep Hill, pay him his bonuses anyway and sign him up for another tour of duty.
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lancem
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09-13-09 9:00 AM
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No because the losing attitude begins with the front office.just look at perry hill,was told one thing,signed a contract if the pirates have a gold glove winner he gets a bonus then trades then trades 3/4 of the infield and 2 of their outfielders,1 who won the gold glove last year.the players see this also.
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